A while ago I was challenged by a certain amateur philosopher to respond to one of these "meme" things - a challenge which I have, thus far, failed to undertake. This changes tonight.
Three out of the four options, while intriguing, didn't interest me enough to make a post about. Sorry bro. The one I'd like to respond to is the following one:
2) You are a selfish, bad person. Odd, I know. We don't think of ourselves this way, but can you honestly tell me one good thing you have ever done? Something which was good in and of its self but didn't do ANYTHING for you personally? Not even make you feel good? This one gives me the heebie jeebies.
What I find interesting about this is that this is the exact conclusion I came to about human behavior a couple years ago. I think, actually, that I did a post about this once; the idea that seemingly altruistic behavior is not actually altruistic, but in fact a selfish act designed to either make you feel good or prevent you from feeling bad. I believe the discussion on that post turned to the topic of the martyr, and how in order to be a martyr, you must either be religious or confused.
It seems to me, from looking at all of these ideas, that the only way to be absolutely certain that you are a selfless person is to become a martyr, while not believing in a life after death. People who believe in a life after death can't be certain they're good people because that act could simply have been selfishly intended to get them into Heaven. Only by actually becoming a martyr and giving up your life can you be absolutely certain that the act wasn't intended to get a good feeling or to avoid guilt.
Of course, the trouble with this is, up until the very point where you die, you can't be certain that you're good, and after that point, well...it doesn't really matter anymore, because you're dead, and there is no afterlife. I suppose there might be an infinitesimal instant between before death and after death, when you'd know you were a truly selfless person, but...man, that sucks.
To take this further, people who die for a cause aren't really selfless, because they are simply dying for something that they know they want even more than life itself. It's still something they care about, and something they want, so they are achieving their own goal in death. So really, the only way to know that you are truly selfless is to die for a cause that you know you hate.
I think I'd rather accept the possibility that I'm selfish...hopefully that in and of itself isn't selfish...shit!
14 comments:
"Amateur"? Humpf!
Uh, are you calling Jesus selfish?
Well, Jesus is a special case.
Not to be disrespectful, but this is, after all, one of the problems I see with Christianity in general... Jesus isn't really a martyr anyway...if you come back to life in three days, then it's not really death, or, alternatively, death isn't nearly so frightening as people think... You could, obviously, go either way with that, but you would still end up at the conclusion that it wasn't as huge a sacrifice as people make it out to be.
Three days in a coma - big deal.
-or-
Death only lasts three days, after which follows an eternity of Heaven - big deal.
The Church makes a huge deal out of Jesus' crucifixion...I've really never understood what all the fuss is about. People have died in crueler ways for a lot less...people who weren't going to be resurrected in 72 hours.
But yes, by this logic, Jesus would be as selfish as the rest of us. He still never did anything that he didn't ultimately want to do, or choose to do, since pleasing God was more important to him than life...perhaps, actually, the only way to be truly selfless is to forfeit free will...now there's an interesting idea...
Consider also that Jesus was the only person in the history of the world who knew that there was a life after death and who knew what his reward would be. So not only was his sacrifice not so hot, but his certainty of his reward was absolute.
Allegedly.
"since pleasing God was more important to him than life...perhaps, actually, the only way to be truly selfless is to forfeit free will...now there's an interesting idea..."
I think you are actually on to something here. Some Christian writers have held that trying to assert our "individuality" or "separateness" from God, placing our own will over the will of God, is nothing but slavery in a different (confused) form.
In considering the case of Jesus I think that in some ways you are a little off the mark. If you are willing to grant all that you have above than it is pretty obvious that the big deal was God dying... which is a nearly inconceivable concept. It is similar to the incarnation itself... or it is the fulfillment of the incarnation... this is pretty deep stuff and I am certainly no expert.
This is interesting stuff, Ben. It might be useful to explore what it means to be "selfish". In your post, being selfish seems identical to being a "self".
I'm not too impressed with the goal of becoming "selfless". It is, I think, irrational.
The Church is promoting the goal of universal love, which is, I think, a rational goal. It is "selfish", in the sense that it is done by a self, and the self who loves finds love to be gratifying. It is "selfless" in the sense that the loving person is able to put the good of others on a par with his own good:
"Love your neighbor as yourself."
The Crucifixion might look different to you in that context. It's not really about life after death, but love.
Great blog.
Dad
Well, Torq, if you accept that God is immortal, then God dying isn't an "inconceivable" concept, it's an impossible concept. The definition of immortal and the definition of death require that. Having "dry" water is not inconceivable, it is impossible, because dry by definition means lacking in water. Immortal by definition means never dying.
...or are you implying that God is not immortal? This hasn't been proven either way here, I suppose, but I think it is a fairly well accepted idea.
*nods* good points all around. The incarnation is equally impossible. The infinite, eternal, primal cause of the universe CANNOT be any point within the universe.
I am not saying that this did not happen, I just want it to stand in it's true light! No point in making a conversation seem easier than it is.
The Chalcedonian Definition, at the back of your prayer book, together with the Athanasian Creed, also in your prayer book, gives us language that will help us to navigate this mystery. Of course, it is true that divinity cannot die. But Jesus - - though one Person - - has both a divine and a human nature. He can die.
But let's not be too confident that we know what it means to die! We haven't done that yet.
Dad
Look Ben... there is digital vomit on your website!
Great, as if I don't see enough real vomit...
On another note, apparently I can even get rid of the "comment deleted" tag. 1984 is just around the corner.
Perhaps it should have been called 2084? Hmmmmm...
Why hello there. How are you doing?
I'm swell. How are you?
Post a Comment